If you have not heard about the blockbuster trade in which the New York Yankees sent C/DH Jesus Montero and RHP Hector Noesi to the Seattle Mariners in exchange for RHPs Michael Pineda and Jose Campos, you must have had a really good Friday night. Anyway, feel free to read about the details of the deal if you need to catch up on the basics before coming back for some more angles. I probably spent a good 2.5-3 hours digesting this deal last night and I think I am finally ready to share some of my own reactions/responses. This calls for bullets though.
Cons
I’m terrified of Jesus Montero becoming a “Miguel Cabrera-type” bat. No scouting report has denied the fact that he’s going to mash, but now it won’t be for the Yankees.
I’m also terrified that Michael Pineda will suffer some sort of injury or just be bad. This is an irrational fear at this point, but still one that is going through my mind.
Even with Montero in the fold, the Yankees’ vaunted offense was slowly, but steadily, moving toward the edge of a cliff. With him removed from the equation, the Yankees have no bridge to span the gap between the Robinson Cano/Curtis Granderson/Mark Teixeira trio and the next wave of Yankee bats. Basically the Yankees seem to have solved their pitching woes and shifted the (eventual) needs to the offense.
Hector Noesi was also dealt. I’m not as broken up over this as some others, but it warrants mentioning anyway because he was a homegrown, cost controlled prospect who possesses respectable upside as a middle-of-the-rotation starter.
Pros
Michael Pineda, while possibly spending 2012 as the No. 3 or No. 4 starter, is the type of talent the Yankees needed to acquire in a blockbuster deal. I’m not necessarily a fan of the deal subjectively, but objectively, Pineda is a true top-of-the-rotation arm who I think is on par with Mat Latos and ahead of Gio Gonzalez. You can argue that the Yankees paid less than the Cincinnati Reds and Washington Nationals paid as well.
On paper, the Yankees pitching is stout. Ivan Nova was the team’s No. 2 starter less than 24 hours ago. Now he could be slotted into the No. 4 slot and I am definitely a fan of that.
The offense has more flexibility with the DH spot open. This was definitely a plus that I was willing to see the Yankees sacrifice, but now that they have it, they will have the opportunity to make up for the loss of Montero over the mid-term while giving Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira and Derek Jeter more rest in the short-term.
With the expanded playoff field, teams need to place an increased emphasis on winning the division. A talented and deep pitching staff is probably the best way for a team to put itself in a position to win it’s division. That is what the Yanks have with a shut down ‘pen and strong rotation.
Jose Campos was also acquired in the deal and even though he is only 19 and has yet to pitch in full-season ball he seems like he could at least match Noesi’s prospect status in a couple of years. If a few stars align, he could even become a top-of-the-rotation type prospect in the class of Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos. This remains a long-shot, but a lot of scouts and executives are bullish on his talent.
Miscellaneous
The Yankees still have a strong offense, but they will need to address their DH vacancy. I don’t mind them bringing in Carlos Pena to platoon with Andruw Jones; Prince Fielder would look great, but I still don’t like the chances; maybe the Yanks will swing another trade at some point there are a lot of options and directions to consider. The slow Yankees off-season just got blown wide open.
With pitching strengthened for what we hope to be years to come – both in the minors and at the Major League level – the Yanks have to add some bats to the system. I think signing the young Cuban, Jorge Soler, is a must for the Yanks. I’ll talk more about this in the coming days/weeks.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the competition for the fifth spot in the rotation between Phil Hughes, Freddy Garcia and A.J. Burnett.
Would it have been wiser for the Yankees to have just gone all in on a Yu Darvish bid? In some ways ‘yes’ and in some ways ‘no’. This is something that will likely warrant a more in-depth discussion as well.
There is so much more that will be said regarding this deal and any follow up deals that happen in its wake. What was once a quiet and peaceful off-season has erupted into a wildfire of emotion, analysis and anticipation.
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6 Rants to “Did the New York Yankees Make the Right Move to Ac...”
Nice piece man. I’m a Yankee fan but in my opinion I didn’t like the trade at all I think Montero had the potential to be a beast and I’m not too sold on Pineda but that’s just my opinion.
Thanks Josh, I appreciate it. I’m sure I’ll change my mind several times between now and the start of the season. Pineda definitely has the tools to be a legit No. 1 or No. 2 starter, but I agree with you about Montero. It’s going to be awfully painful to watch if he reaches his ceiling as Seattle Mariner.
I can’t believe the reaction to this trade, the near complete lack of happiness just baffles me.
We just landed one of the most talented young pitchers in all of baseball. One who doesn’t even turn 23 for another week, throws in the mid 90′s, has an established year in the major leagues already, and fills the Yankees biggest need for the past 3 years and the only reactions I can find are anger, sadness, and tempered acceptance. I’m not going to lie when I first saw this trade on ESPN I quite literally jumped from my seat with joy.
Pineda is someone I have mentioned several times as a player I would trade Montero for, though I never thought in a million years the Mariners would be willing to part with him. Sure there are risks, but there are risks in every trade you make. For my money Pineda is leagues ahead of Gonzalez and only slightly behind Latos in terms of current ability, but he’s ahead of Latos in overall potential.
He’s a young, big bodied kid who strikes out guys at an amazing clip and has extremely advanced control for someone his age and with his stuff. He is very similar to a young CC Sabathia in a lot of ways. CC came up as a 2 pitch fastball/slider guy, yet with much less feel for pounding the strike zone and a lot less control.
The talk of a second half collapse have been greatly exaggerated, his peripheral numbers, and a breakdown of his season month by month show a much different story than the one being put out by simply breaking the season in two.
I know the love for Montero was immense, in fact it bordered on psychotic obsession, but that is no reason to dismiss and denounce a trade just because he was involved. The negative reaction from the fan base seems to be coming from a place of emotion and not rational. If you were going to trade Montero this is exactly the type of trade you should make, and considering what the Pads got for Latos Cashman did so in a steal by comparison.
I can understand it. While Michael Pineda represents a legit solution to a Yankees weakness, Jesus Montero has been one of the best prospects in the game for the past three years. Perhaps Montero doesn’t reach his ceiling as a “Miguel Cabrera-like” bat. That doesn’t mean fans didn’t develop an obsessive attachment to him. Some of the overreactions were definitely WAY over the top, but short of those, I have no problem with fans lacking happiness toward this deal or expressing disappointment. I agree that a lot of the reactions were emotional, but I would not have expected anything else to be honest.
I’m definitely happy that the Yanks got Pineda instead of John Danks or Matt Cain. Hopefully Pineda continues to develop and help lead a dominant pitching staff. I also hope that the Yankees start addressing the upcoming (in the mid-term) lineup weaknesses aggressively so that they don’t end up scrambling for offense in a few years the way they had to with pitching.
I guess I just don’t get it because I don’t get super attached to prospects to the point of not being able to deal with them leaving. I was a huge Austin Jackson mark and followed him all through the minors. When he hits his first HR in ST I was thrilled, but when he got traded for Granderson I was excited as I could be we upgraded so much. I’m a huge Joba Chamberlain fan but if we had traded him and the player we got back was a good player I would have been happy for that. To simply hate a trade because you way over hyped a guy in the first place just makes no sense to me.
I saw a lot, a lot, of people saying that Pineda projects as a 4th or 5th starter, and that he was league average. While the great Montero was a “once in a generation bat” that you “never ever trade for anything”. How many fire Cashman posts did you read over the weekend? People lost their minds. Just not rational.
Montero doesn’t even profile as Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has posted a .396+ OBP 6 years in his career, Montero doesn’t project to be anywhere near that kind of on base machine. There is a chance he figures it out and does become the kind of player who can post those kind of OBP numbers but I haven’t seen anything that would make me put money on it. It’s much more likely he puts up numbers similar to Carlos Lee, only instead of playing OF he DH’s most of his career. In which case this could be a major steal for us.
If this was scrambling for pitching then I’m fine with doing the same for hitting in 3 or 4 years, because we got a stud and for a steal compared to league prices. I’m not as worried about the state of the offense as many seem to be. We had one of the top 2 or 3 offenses in all of baseball last year, that shouldn’t change in the next 2-3 years, which is the window in which we are trying to win a championship. Perhaps at that point when Burnett’s contract is off the books, when Jeter is close to done, and Teixeira’s contract is close to over we can re-stock via free agency. After all it’s much easier to find bats via the free agent market than it is pitchers. Plus we still have Banuelos, Sanchez, and Betances, as well as adding Campos. So if we need to make a trade for a young bat in the next couple of years it would seem we have the prospects to make that move.
To be fair, Austin Jackson wasn’t close to the prospect that Montero is and when Jackson was traded he was moved in a deal that brought back the “best case” for his long-term development. It would be like if Montero was swapped in a deal for Miguel Cabrera (not necessarily saying I think he’ll match Cabrera, but that is the comp that several scouts have made). How could you be upset if you are trading a prospect for the finished product.
With that said, yes, a lot of people were definitely being irrational about the trade. I can certainly understand an initial negative gut reaction and I can understand still not liking the deal a few days later. Some of the responses that some fans had were ridiculous though. Whether you love, like or hate the trade, there is absolutely no way that Michael Pineda projects as a back-of-the-rotation starter. We both know that comments like those are ridiculous.
The Yankees are in a position to make their team better post-Montero than it was pre-Montero. They robbed Peter to pay Paul to an extent, but the starting pitching is young, talented and deep and as you mentioned, there is still enough depth in the farm system to swing a deal for an impact bat if the time/need arises. As far as being able to easily sign guys in free agency, I think those days are swiftly coming to an end. I know Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols and Jose Reyes each hit the market this year, but the way teams are locking up young studs, those days are going to be few and far between.
Nice piece man. I’m a Yankee fan but in my opinion I didn’t like the trade at all I think Montero had the potential to be a beast and I’m not too sold on Pineda but that’s just my opinion.
Thanks Josh, I appreciate it. I’m sure I’ll change my mind several times between now and the start of the season. Pineda definitely has the tools to be a legit No. 1 or No. 2 starter, but I agree with you about Montero. It’s going to be awfully painful to watch if he reaches his ceiling as Seattle Mariner.
I can’t believe the reaction to this trade, the near complete lack of happiness just baffles me.
We just landed one of the most talented young pitchers in all of baseball. One who doesn’t even turn 23 for another week, throws in the mid 90′s, has an established year in the major leagues already, and fills the Yankees biggest need for the past 3 years and the only reactions I can find are anger, sadness, and tempered acceptance. I’m not going to lie when I first saw this trade on ESPN I quite literally jumped from my seat with joy.
Pineda is someone I have mentioned several times as a player I would trade Montero for, though I never thought in a million years the Mariners would be willing to part with him. Sure there are risks, but there are risks in every trade you make. For my money Pineda is leagues ahead of Gonzalez and only slightly behind Latos in terms of current ability, but he’s ahead of Latos in overall potential.
He’s a young, big bodied kid who strikes out guys at an amazing clip and has extremely advanced control for someone his age and with his stuff. He is very similar to a young CC Sabathia in a lot of ways. CC came up as a 2 pitch fastball/slider guy, yet with much less feel for pounding the strike zone and a lot less control.
The talk of a second half collapse have been greatly exaggerated, his peripheral numbers, and a breakdown of his season month by month show a much different story than the one being put out by simply breaking the season in two.
I know the love for Montero was immense, in fact it bordered on psychotic obsession, but that is no reason to dismiss and denounce a trade just because he was involved. The negative reaction from the fan base seems to be coming from a place of emotion and not rational. If you were going to trade Montero this is exactly the type of trade you should make, and considering what the Pads got for Latos Cashman did so in a steal by comparison.
I can understand it. While Michael Pineda represents a legit solution to a Yankees weakness, Jesus Montero has been one of the best prospects in the game for the past three years. Perhaps Montero doesn’t reach his ceiling as a “Miguel Cabrera-like” bat. That doesn’t mean fans didn’t develop an obsessive attachment to him. Some of the overreactions were definitely WAY over the top, but short of those, I have no problem with fans lacking happiness toward this deal or expressing disappointment. I agree that a lot of the reactions were emotional, but I would not have expected anything else to be honest.
I’m definitely happy that the Yanks got Pineda instead of John Danks or Matt Cain. Hopefully Pineda continues to develop and help lead a dominant pitching staff. I also hope that the Yankees start addressing the upcoming (in the mid-term) lineup weaknesses aggressively so that they don’t end up scrambling for offense in a few years the way they had to with pitching.
I guess I just don’t get it because I don’t get super attached to prospects to the point of not being able to deal with them leaving. I was a huge Austin Jackson mark and followed him all through the minors. When he hits his first HR in ST I was thrilled, but when he got traded for Granderson I was excited as I could be we upgraded so much. I’m a huge Joba Chamberlain fan but if we had traded him and the player we got back was a good player I would have been happy for that. To simply hate a trade because you way over hyped a guy in the first place just makes no sense to me.
I saw a lot, a lot, of people saying that Pineda projects as a 4th or 5th starter, and that he was league average. While the great Montero was a “once in a generation bat” that you “never ever trade for anything”. How many fire Cashman posts did you read over the weekend? People lost their minds. Just not rational.
Montero doesn’t even profile as Miguel Cabrera. Cabrera has posted a .396+ OBP 6 years in his career, Montero doesn’t project to be anywhere near that kind of on base machine. There is a chance he figures it out and does become the kind of player who can post those kind of OBP numbers but I haven’t seen anything that would make me put money on it. It’s much more likely he puts up numbers similar to Carlos Lee, only instead of playing OF he DH’s most of his career. In which case this could be a major steal for us.
If this was scrambling for pitching then I’m fine with doing the same for hitting in 3 or 4 years, because we got a stud and for a steal compared to league prices. I’m not as worried about the state of the offense as many seem to be. We had one of the top 2 or 3 offenses in all of baseball last year, that shouldn’t change in the next 2-3 years, which is the window in which we are trying to win a championship. Perhaps at that point when Burnett’s contract is off the books, when Jeter is close to done, and Teixeira’s contract is close to over we can re-stock via free agency. After all it’s much easier to find bats via the free agent market than it is pitchers. Plus we still have Banuelos, Sanchez, and Betances, as well as adding Campos. So if we need to make a trade for a young bat in the next couple of years it would seem we have the prospects to make that move.
To be fair, Austin Jackson wasn’t close to the prospect that Montero is and when Jackson was traded he was moved in a deal that brought back the “best case” for his long-term development. It would be like if Montero was swapped in a deal for Miguel Cabrera (not necessarily saying I think he’ll match Cabrera, but that is the comp that several scouts have made). How could you be upset if you are trading a prospect for the finished product.
With that said, yes, a lot of people were definitely being irrational about the trade. I can certainly understand an initial negative gut reaction and I can understand still not liking the deal a few days later. Some of the responses that some fans had were ridiculous though. Whether you love, like or hate the trade, there is absolutely no way that Michael Pineda projects as a back-of-the-rotation starter. We both know that comments like those are ridiculous.
The Yankees are in a position to make their team better post-Montero than it was pre-Montero. They robbed Peter to pay Paul to an extent, but the starting pitching is young, talented and deep and as you mentioned, there is still enough depth in the farm system to swing a deal for an impact bat if the time/need arises. As far as being able to easily sign guys in free agency, I think those days are swiftly coming to an end. I know Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols and Jose Reyes each hit the market this year, but the way teams are locking up young studs, those days are going to be few and far between.